Christine Baranski and Cynthia Nixon on the conflict between old money and new in The Gilded Age

Christine Baranski and Cynthia Nixon are both acting powerhouses, famous for triumphs on the stage as well as the big and small screens. This year, they’ve appeared in the roles they’re arguably best-known for—Baranski as Diane Lockhart in The Good Fight and Nixon returning to her Sex And The City character Miranda Hobbes in the sequel series And Just Like That…—and both are co-starring in HBO’s new period piece series The Gilded Age.

Created by Downton Abbey’s Julian Fellowes, The Gilded Age occurs in the same universe as DA, but across the pond in New York, a few decades prior. Baranski and Nixon play Agnes Van Rhijn and Ada Brook, respectively, a widow and an unmarried sister who embody old-school New York. They are suspicious of the new money entering their 5th Avenue neighborhood in the form of railroad baron George Russell (Morgan Spector) and his socially ambitious wife Bertha (Carrie Coon). Agnes is what could be considered the Maggie Smith role, commanding and wittily caustic, while Ada is much more soft-spoken, but definitely has opinions of her own that may surprisingly vary from her sister’s.

Now that the addictive series has premiered, The A.V. Club got the chance to talk to the onscreen sisters about the differences between portraying modern-day and period characters, just what is so intimidating about new money, and their favorite items from the exquisitely furnished Gilded Age set.

Christine Baranski: For me, I had to do much more research for The Gilded Age because I was entering a historical period that—first of all, I did not live in the Gilded Age. [Laughs.] [In the contemporary world,] I swim in the same reality as Diane Lockhart. So, much more preparation. I’ve been doing Diane for 12 years, but this was a new project. You always feel you have a great deal of preparation work to do and backstory and all. But I mean, it was just such a welcome change. I love The Good Fight, but I had never done period work on film, so it was just yummy to get to work on it. It wasn’t work to me; it was just like a real pleasure.

Cynthia Nixon: When I look at the characters on Sex And The City and And Just Like That…, they’re so independent. That’s the main thing about them. They’re independent and they’re making their own decisions. Whereas all of the characters in The Gilded Age are so deeply intertwined and they’re so knit into the fabric. Agnes, I think, says New York is a collection of little villages. And I think there’s very much a sense you see in my modern, contemporary New York shows how people can just make their own decisions. Whereas in this world, everyone is watching you all the time. Your family is watching you, your servants are watching you, the people on the street. So your life is very, very constrained. Whether you’re a working-class person or whether you’re an upper-level aristocrat, you have to constantly be mindful because everyone has to stay in their place and and toe the party line.

AVC: Christine, do you think that’s what Agnes is really afraid of? She’s so rigid about the old money versus new money. Why is she so inflexible about letting these new people come in?

CB: I think she’s fearful of their value system, or their lack of a value system. These people came in with enormous amounts of money. But as Julian [Fellowes] said, they knew no boundaries. They didn’t recognize boundaries. They had enough money to ignore boundaries. And it’s something we see in our own [society]… that if you’re wealthy enough, you don’t have to play by the rules.

And Agnes is, I think, properly horrified by living in a world that will be defined only by displays of money, overt use of money, or people or a culture that feels entitled to anything because they can afford to buy it. It’s actually a crass world [that] she feels is forthcoming. You can define her as strict and maybe a snob, but she’s actually holding on to a value system that defined the best of what the creation of the United States was. You know, it was built on 18th-century rationale and Protestant values. You can argue against that in so many ways, but there was a lot to be said for a world that was not fully defined by wealth.

CN: And so much of that is also equated with aggression. You know, certainly people like the Russells are enormously ambitious. They have enormous tenacity and ingenuity and hard work and discipline and all that stuff. But another thing they have is just sheer aggression.

AVC: And a kind of ruthlessness that they needed to get to where they are. Ada seems more flexible, but is she really? Or does she just hide it better than Agnes does?

CN: You know, I think it’s a combination of things. Agnes knows who she is and what she thinks about just about everything. And Ada, I think there are many questions on which Ada doesn’t know what she thinks. But she’s curious, and she knows as a person who’s lived life so much on the margins, she watches. So she likes a good show, and she’s interested in things in the world because her life is so relatively empty. She’s never married, she doesn’t have children, and she’s living on her sister’s charity. So I think that Agnes follows her ethical belief system, but Ada really follows her heart. And if people can move her empathy, whoever they are, she’s probably going to be at least somewhat on their side.

AVC: One of the many great things about the show is how female-centered it is. And there are a lot of women working behind the scenes as well. But the series focuses on the society women and how much they control. And a lot of that still seems to have carried over to the 21st century, like if you have a name like Kennedy or Vanderbilt or Hilton it can definitely open doors for you that just money would not. Do you think that’s still true?

CB: Totally, totally. There’s still clubs that other people want to get into. And you know, I don’t need to comment further, but you know, plus ça change. I don’t think it’s as overt. There isn’t a 400 list like Mr. McAllister and Mrs. Astor made up who can get in and who’s out. That would be considered discriminatory now. But I still think there’s, hiding in plain sight, a kind of elitism and tribalism that we have with regards to money and status.

CN: And we now talk about networking, but honestly, these women who controlled society, they were the original networkers. And not just for social reasons or dressing up or having parties or having dances, but it was by controlling society. They controlled a lot of what doors were opened to their husbands or were shut on their husbands. And so at a time when women had a lot less power than they do now, society women, at least, actually had had a very strong amount of power in this particular regard. They were the gatekeepers.

AVC: Another amazing aspect of The Gilded Age is that it’s just glorious to watch, from the gowns to the accessories to the elaborately detailed interiors. Is there an artifact on set that’s a favorite of yours or some particular set decoration that you feel strongly about? Or even one of your costumes?

CN: I have to say there was one little ashtray on set that I would go visit all the time. It was in the shape of a leaf and it had a little cherub on it. I don’t know, there was something about it that was so I don’t know, gorgeous. And I coveted it very much, and I would go visit it every day on set.

AVC: Did you find out where it came from or anything, or you just admired it?

CN: It was a forbidden love. I didn’t speak of it.

AVC: Understood.

CB: I saw fabric on the set, because the fabrics are so lush. And there was a pink velvet on a little chair and I was just captivated by it. And indeed I did call the set decorator and say, “Where can I get that fabric? Because I want it for a little bedroom chair of mine.” It was so feminine and beautiful.

AVC: For both of you, this is probably one the the largest productions you’ve been in, what with 200 people in period dress.

CB: My gosh. Absolutely. And so much detail. I mean, such a replication. I mean, imagine, to replicate the Gilded Age, how much money that takes for HBO to be able to do that. And how much talent and how much research goes into creating those sets and the costumes. And you should have seen the costume department, several floors of pictures and fabrics and characters and mannequins. It was an enormous effort. I always said it was like launching the Queen Mary, just getting this show off the ground.

CN: Also we took over a part of Troy, New York; we took over a number of city blocks. We put down dirt as if the streets weren’t paved. And there were some old buildings there that that fit in with us, but mostly created all new storefronts. I mean, we created an entire square and we had wagons. I only shot one scene there, where Marion [Louisa Jacobson] and I go to the original Bloomingdale’s, which was the Bloomingdale brothers’ shop. And it was extraordinary because it was in a part of kind of a depressed, maybe, part of Troy, New York. And we were in a kind of a dicey parking lot, all of our trucks and whatever. And then I opened the door and it was like that moment in The Wizard Of Oz. I opened a door, and all of a sudden there was dirt floors and dirt roads and carriages. And scores, if not hundreds, of people in period dress. And it took my breath away.

AVC: As the season kicks off, the Russells, especially Bertha, are trying their hardest to force their way in to high society. Without giving too much away, is there anything the Russells can do to get the status they want, or is that divide is just always going to be there?

CB: Well. Bertha Russell won’t be denied. Her husband says that several times, you know, “You don’t know how to fail,” or “You don’t know the word ‘no’.” She’s determined, but also historically based. So I’m not going to reveal the plot, but there is a history to that trajectory. The Russells are based on a family, and that’s for the audience to discover. But she is a force to contend with, which is why you have that poster with the two women squaring off against each other.