Savage Love Extra- February 6, 2008

Readers respond to Dan Savage's advice for
Really Unsure For Future, who's attracted to dogs:

I love your column, and
I appreciate that you continually stand up for the oppressed, the repressed,
and those who just need a little push to get out there and live how they really
want (and often need) to.

But I couldn't help but
cringe at a recent letter from RUFF and at your advice that (while you
reiterate that "Bestiality is wrong, wrong, wrong, because an animal cannot
give its consent") RUFF go get that house with a big yard and take his
animal-loving inside. I actually agree with your assertion that those of us who
implicitly condone cruelty to animals by supporting industries that torture and
kill them for food and clothing have little room to bash dog-fuckers (or, as
seems to be the case here, dog-fuckees). Still, I think you'd have done well to
suggest that RUFF see the shrink FIRST and consider getting the house down the
road.

Whether you wanted to
or not, your suggestion that RUFF go out and get the house and yard (regardless
of how many ellipses you use in your sentences to express your discomfort with
the issue) suggests that secretive dog-fucking is somehow okay. This, of
course, stands in direct opposition to your statement that dog-fucking isn't
cool.

Anyway, Dan, I'm
normally right there with you on matters of sexual difference, but do you
honestly think that this guy (all of 25 years old) couldn't use a little
therapy? If for no other reason than to work through something that is causing
him pain? I say, suggest the dude go to a fucking shrink! And after a few
months, if he still pitches a tent every time he sees that Irish wolfhound in
the dog park, perhaps then he could start saving for that house.

Not Accepting Of Dog Sex

Might there be another option for RUFF besides
a life alone or screwing dogs? Perhaps he could consider "dating furries"? Or
am I just naïve to think that someone dressed up as a dog would, err, get his
motor running?

JB

I read your advice for
RUFF, and quite honestly, I don't know where to begin analyzing it ethically.
But from a practical standpoint, there are potential dangers in attempting to
be fucked by a dog. If this dude is really looking to be penetrated (and not
just the old "oops, I spilled peanut butter on my crotch" trick), he should be
aware that during intercourse, a gland at the base of the dog's penis swells.
It's called the bulbus glandis, and the purpose is to lock the dog's penis
inside the bitch's vagina during the entirety of mating, since canine
ejaculation comes in three stages, which can take 20-30 minutes or longer to
complete. If you've ever seen two dogs walking around like they're conjoined at
the butt, that's what's going on. They literally cannot separate themselves!

Now, I have no idea
whether this would happen during penetration of a human anus, but I see no
reason why it wouldn't. The potential for physical damage here alarms me,
especially since you can't communicate with a dog the way you can with another
person about going slower, being gentle, etc. And imagine if something did go
wrong and you were "tied" to the dog for a half-hour or more. Ugh, you know
what: Don't imagine it. Just let RUFF know that what you think he's thinking
about doing is, besides being ethically dubious at best, a potential
emergency-room nightmare waiting to happen.

Loves Dogs And Healthy Anuses

While you claim you're
against screwing animals since it is clearly nonconsensual, you then give Ruff
the go-ahead, by justifying it on grounds that society at large already treats
animals like so much dirt. So rather than you challenging yourself to exchange
the tortured factory-farmed meat you eat in favor of free-range meat, or, god
forbid, even reduce or eliminate meat from your diet, you'd go with "two wrongs
make a right."

While you can claim
some authority on sex advice, you're clearly out of your range when it comes to
ethical issues such as animal cruelty, or environmental issues such as eating
factory-farmed meat. But hey, as long as we're all happy indulging our sexual
appetites, who cares about the suffering and environmental damage that will
destroy life on earth as we know it, within a matter of only a few generations.

Screw The Planet

Instead of acting this
out, I think the guy with the dog fetish should see a sex-positive
psychodynamic therapist. Why? Because I disagree with your belief that fetishes
cannot be changed. They can.

While most fetishes add
to the vast and stunning variety of sex to enjoy, those that are nonconsensual,
or carry unacceptable dangers, or, in RUFF's case, prison and/or living an
extremely isolated life, may be better left in fantasy. Or better, explored to
see how they come to play such a key role in our sexual responses.

I want to ask you to
rethink your views on fetishes, Dan, and I argue this as someone who has worked
as a therapist and also has experienced changes in what turns me on through
both therapy and simply from living my life. I do not think sexual fixations
are the same as sexual orientation. I disagree with therapists who claim to
"cure" gays. Firstly, of course, sexual orientation is not an illness to be
cured, and secondly, I believe sexual orientation is pretty well hardwired. In
a few people, I have found orientation does shift over time—the research
I have seen says more commonly in women than men—probably only in people
who had bi potential all along.

But I doubt very much
that this guy's sexuality is hardwired. I think it is a fetish, and fetishes,
unlike orientations, do change over time in many, many people—not
necessarily because they seek to change them, but because they outlive their
usefulness to our psyche.

How not to change a fetish? Try
to repress, ignore, or deny it. Hate yourself for it. Fear it. Wallow in a
self-perpetuating cycle of fantasizing or acting out a taboo followed by shame,
guilt, and self-punishment.

There is no guarantee
that his fetish can be changed, or that the guy who wrote to you would discover
sexual feelings for people, men or women. But I believe there is a fairly good
chance of some significant change—if he can commit himself to explore his
inner life, along with his sexuality and his feelings about people, and talk
frankly and honestly with a nonjudgmental, confidential, skilled person. I'm
not saying it wouldn't be hard. He would have to be willing to change as well
as to risk sharing such feelings, when the usual reaction is
revulsion—but there are skilled therapists who would not judge him for
his physical feelings, although they would require a commitment to not act on
these fantasies while he's in therapy.

The key would be to
find a psychologist with experience working on sexual issues, and an
understanding of developmental theory. In addition, he should interview
potential therapists and make sure he finds someone whom he can trust.

Fetishes Alter In Therapy

Your understanding of
fulfilled sexuality as an integral part of a happy, good life has influenced me
more than you'll ever know, Dan. I point at your advice to show my religious
relatives that even (gasp) a homosexual can have a strong, well-thought-out moral
stance, and can lead a meaningful, upright, family life.

I won't be showing them
your most recent column, however. Your advice to Really Unsure For Future, the
25-year-old zoophile, gave me "paws." (Sorry.) Yes, if dogs could give consent,
they would much rather roger their owners (or a shoe, or a potato, or a
fencepost) than be killed and eaten. Yes, as a society we cruelly use animals
in many sickening ways. And, yes, it's unlikely that the letter-writer will
magically start being attracted to his own species.

Does that give him
license to get his funk on with Fido? (Sorry again.) Dogs can't give consent.
Neither can children or mentally retarded adults. They are off-limits because
they can't give consent, because the act is between inherent unequals.

Keep It In The Species

Dan, there's no reason why RUFF can't enjoy
that backyard with a very high fence with a partner. There are lots of people
out there who share his interests. Please send him the following links so that
he can find like-minded people to at least talk to, if not date:
beastdating.com and beastforum.com.

Handball Top

I realize there aren't
really good answers to RUFF's problem, but the answer you gave could only be
considered less
evil at best. Here's what I got: So, a RealDoll is an accurate, fully fuckable
replica of a human woman, right? Well, maybe it would be possible to construct
an anatomically accurate, fuckable RealDogg. I know it takes a lot of
imagination to make a RealDoll seem as good as a living woman (to most), and
the same challenge will exist with a RealDogg. But there is no risk of cruelty
to the nonliving silicone and internal metal bones that make up a RealDogg, and
it doesn't poop or need food, and there's no guilty temptation just to have it
put to sleep if RUFF gets bored with it.

There are people out
there with enough skills to construct a RealDoll. They probably have the skills
to make a RealDogg too. Expensive in cash, but probably the most affordable way
morally for RUFF to indulge this hunger. This will just have to do until the
animated, heated, self-lubricated, friendly but certified-non-aware AI fuckable
robot dogs can be invented later this century.

Shane

You said it yourself in paragraph two of your
response to RUFF: "Bestiality is wrong, wrong, wrong." So what happened at the
end of your response? You're going to tell this writer to go ahead anyway, as
long as he doesn't get caught? Even if animals have the instinct to procreate,
it doesn't make it right to abuse that natural urge for some guy to get his rocks
off. An analogy: A 13-year-old boy might take pleasure in having the erect
penis he awoke with rubbed, so does that make it all right for Uncle Jimmy to
rub it for him? NO, NO, NO!

Kids and animals can't give their consent.
Period.

It troubles me that despite your clear grasp of
the cruel practices of modern agribusiness, leather, and fur industry, etc,
etc., Dan, you truly believe the only outcome for an animal's life is to be
either "screwed or stewed." Vegans are just as freaky and kinky as the rest,
but we try to have our fun without exploiting those that can't speak for
themselves. Go vegan and try veganerotica.com for your fetish needs.

As for RUFF, maybe he can purchase an
inflatable doggy to play with. Or try fucking a person dressed up like a dog
while having old Lassie reruns on in the background…

Izzi

Tell that sick fuck
RUFF to do us all, especially animals, a favor by blowing his brains out.

If RUFF had admitted to
wanting to rape children, would you tell him to build a "nice tall fence around
that yard" and do whatever he was going to do "inside, please, shades drawn"?
Having sex with animals is against the law, as is having sex with children. At
the very least, this sick fuck should go and get a nice big dose of
Depo-Provera, or become a plushie. Good grief, what a freak.

No Sympathy For Dog Fuckers

Like 99 percent of your
readers, I am disgusted by RUFF's sexual interest in animals, and while I
strongly dislike your advice to him on this matter, I'm sure you'll receive
plenty of outraged e-mail about it. I instead wanted to thank you for your
brief mention of the misery and cruelty factory-farm animals endure every
moment of their lives.

Each year in the United
States, nearly 10 billion land animals are raised and killed for food. Just like
the dogs and cats we welcome into our homes, chickens, pigs, turkeys, and cows
have their own personalities, inquisitive natures, likes and dislikes,
and—most importantly—the ability to feel pain, suffer from boredom
and frustration, and experience joy. Yet, as you know, these animals are
routinely and horrifically mistreated, and there is no federal law protecting
them, and practically no state laws. The only way to truly remove yourself from
involvement in this violence is to adopt a vegetarian diet, but this is a
personal decision that not all will make. I do, however, urge all to consider
purchasing meat, eggs, and dairy that come only from animals more humanely
raised.

With the growing
interest in natural and organic foods, it is continually becoming easier to
consume animal products in a more compassionate way. You can find more
information at compassionate-carnivores.org.

Jenn F.

I was once in RUFF's
situation. I'm 30. I was a zoophile by age 14, and practicing by 18. Making
that fantasy happen took long jogs in the country at midnight. I was also into
making and collecting "furry" entertainment (comics, etc.). When I was 19, I
lived with a male dog and was putting out a handmade Xerox newsletter on the
subject. This was when "zoophiles" first started coming out and making rare
contacts (like trading 'zines) and getting on the Internet, and through the
Internet, I met a number of people. A few were in my town, and some I met at
"furry" conventions.

Looking back on those
experiences, I know now that they were a desperate way of rationalizing
fucked-up feelings and looking for perverse approval—both the "philia"
and the urge to communicate about it. (RUFF had to share with you, right?) It
was more than a fetish, too. I desperately wanted that house with the tall
fence, and I never dated. It was all compensating for deeper problems, and a
wish for unconditional love. There's empty sexual pleasure, and the adrenaline
thrill from the taboos, but it's never fulfilling, and it leads to worse
problems. Really, you're missing something significant: any mutual connection
with other people.

I tried some shrinks,
and RUFF should beware, sympathetic people are few and far between. The
experience can be very negative. One of the few good things one told me is to
imagine being a soldier coming back from a war: You may want to undo the
unspeakable, but you don't. You just move on and look to the future.

When I was the same age
as RUFF, I cut off all connections with that fantasy world. The way to do it is
to destroy all collections of stimulating material, end communication with
other people into it, and make a new goal for your life. Instead of pursuing
temptation, get a hobby, make friends, and call them when you need to talk. If
lapses happen, leave the house and do something positive.

I realized that I was
badly affected growing up around people who were alternately smothering and
abusive, and I cut off contact with them, while making an effort to have more
and better friends. I took my hobby of drawing for fetish purposes and turned
it into a career of making stuff that can be shown in public. I started dating
and have been enjoying it more each time for three years. (Oh, and sleeping
with women is okay—it hasn't blown my mind yet, but the cuddling part is
the best.)

RUFF may want to try
the things I mentioned, then try meeting people through asexual dating services
(there are websites for it), or just go for it. "Master giving head since my
dick won't want to join the party," as RUFF wrote, is actually a very good idea.
Making your dick happy and fucking your head up worse just sucks. It really,
really sucks. There's nothing like being affectionate with a person, having
them compliment you, and being treated like you're something more than a
two-legged animal.

Suggest No Animals For U