Savage Love Extra - March 26, 2008

Readers respond to the Savage
Love column about gay teenagers who've
come out of the closet:

Your column about coming out was insightful,
funny, and very moving. You tackled hard questions and provided some of the
best answers I've ever heard to them.

My only qualm is with your reply to Christian
Parents Angrily Chastise, whose Christian parents were making his life hell
after they discovered he was gay: "Your only option right now, I'm sorry to
say, is to lie to them." It's not that I don't think lying is necessary for
some kids in his situation, but CPAC should know it's not his only option. My
Christian parents also found out early on (age 12) just how fabulous their son
truly was. I got the works—therapy, extra church sessions, lectures, shunning,
grounding from male friends, the usual stuff. I went back in the closet
initially, but after a while, I realized that was, uh, fruitless and came back
out at 16.

My last few years in high school certainly
weren't a cakewalk, but my parents did a lot of reading, snooping, arguing, and
even some listening, and eventually my relationship with my parents slowly
mended. Shortly after my high-school graduation, my mom even held me while I
cried when the Defense Of Marriage Act was passed. She promised me she would be
at my wedding to dance and drink wine and celebrate my union with my future
husband, along with the rest of the family. Ironically, looking back, it was
one of the happiest moments in my life, too.

I know not every kid has parents like mine, but
that doesn't mean every family like CPAC's is destined to be torn apart
forever, either. If anything, he has a better chance of changing his parents'
beliefs while he's still residing with them and can be a living, breathing,
daily testament to the reality (and permanence) of his homosexuality.

Thank you for one of your best columns to date.

Ryan

I do not think that you went far
enough with your advice, Dan, and I'm going to spell it out for all of your
readers who feel trapped by their "peers" in school, all those kids who are
being harassed and abused by their fellow students: There is life outside of
your high school. I don't just mean that one day you will graduate and move on,
I mean that there are millions of people in this country alone, and some of
them will think you're made entirely out of awesome.

Tired And Losing It and CPAC are
lucky because they live in the age of computers and the Internet. Reach out
into the world and look for people who share your passions, find the people who
care about the issues that interest you, search for the rest of your "tribe,"
and if they're trapped and isolated like you are, offer them your support and
affection.

Don't wait until college to seek
out your true peers. Start looking for them now, and please don't judge yourself
based upon what those assholes at your high school think of you.

Been There, Survived That

Big fan, Dan. However, your usually reliable
web savvy was notably absent in your responses to gay teens last week. Positive
self-affirmations in the mirror and vilifiers directed at small minds worked in
the old days, when you and I grew up as gay boys without the Internet. Today,
GLBT teens have virtual communities at their fingertips that offer support,
tangible resources, and connections to others. I should know… I work with many
of them. Please promote these invaluable lifelines: matthewshepard.org,
pointfoundation.org, gayteens.org, advocatesforyouth.org.

GJP

I am a
counselor in a large school, and the brass responded with similar claims of
"We'll need proof to move forward" when an out student was being harassed. The
student got hold of a pro-bono civil-rights lawyer who had a quick, quiet
discussion with the school CEO. The next month, our school started a series of
awareness workshops and training, sponsored a gay/lesbian/bi/straight alliance
club, and treated any incidence of sexual harassment with the same vigor that
they would a reported pedophile teacher.

A little
lawyerly talk can go a long way.

Been There, Seen That

It is quite obvious that you have a
contemptuous air about you. That's fine. The bar isn't all that high, and your
advice is usually helpful, if painfully obvious. Having said that, I would like
to say this to you about your answer to the 16-year-old old gay boy whose
parents are evangelical Christians: We don't know these people on a personal
basis. They probably love their child but are quite frightened by something
they find alien and incomprehensible. But the true viciousness is in your
knee-jerk, intemperate, and DANGEROUS "advice." I, unlike you, have the
privilege and burden of parenting a teenage boy, and I know that one must be
very careful about what ideas you put in their heads. Fantasies of killing
their parents or of their deaths? Now that's vicious. What if this poor kid actually
did something irrevocable and tragic? Why not address an open letter to the
boy's parents, gently reminding them of the values and love they should
cultivate in the true spirit of their religion, or recommend a local counselor
that they can see as a family? Much more useful, and possibly productive.

Don't Go There

Just wanted to thank you for your
recent column. I'm in college now, but I remember well how lonely and isolating
the high-school years can be. It's sort of a strange time today because I know
a number of gay people who came out at 12, their parents joined PFLAG, they
started their schools' GSAs, etc., and then there are the rest of us, who
suffered through something significantly less friendly. There's not much advice
to give these kids except the same old mantra: You have worth, keep hanging on,
and get yourself into a better environment as soon as you can. Though the
advice is pretty simple, unfortunately there aren't enough people out there
saying it. I'm sure you gave a lot of anxious, lonely teens a little hope and
perspective.

J

There's one important step TALI should take
that you missed. She needs to check her state laws regarding discrimination
against gays and lesbians. It could be that even though she lives in a small,
intolerant town, it could be in a state that has laws barring such
discrimination. If so, she should contact a lawyer, who could then threaten the
school district with a budget-busting lawsuit unless they actively do something
to end the harassment. Usually, the threat of such a lawsuit is enough to get
some action.

Pissed Off At Bigots

You should add information about
resources to your answers to TALI and CPAC. They should contact PFLAG (Parents,
Families And Friends Of Lesbians And Gays). If there isn't a chapter in the
towns where they live, they could still contact nearby chapters for support.
LGBT people often attend PFLAG meetings in order to have contact with parents
and other adults who welcome and accept them. National PFLAG website is
pflag.org

SKR

I hope that
you will refer CPAC to a recent excellent documentary about five Christian
families who found that they had a gay child, and how they handled it [For The Bible
Tells Me So]. One woman featured in the film listened to [James] Dobson
[from Focus On The Family] and wrote a disapproving letter, her daughter hanged
herself in a closet, she studied what the Bible really said, and now she spends
her life offering the acceptance and encouragement to gay children that it is
too late to give her own daughter.

To me and
so many other people, the God of the Bible, through Jesus Christ, is essential
for a life worth living. The Bible does not condemn gay people unless you
decide to interpret it that way; more and more churches are making room for gay
people as valuable members.

JAB

I'm a junior-high-school teacher (and former
teenager), and I want to give a copy of that column to every kid I care about
who's getting shit for being different—in whatever way they're different.
Those three paragraphs are going to help more people than anything else I've
read in a long, long time. They'll help people get through tough times,
probably even help some who otherwise wouldn't get through them alive. Thank
you.

PR

Here's a question you should have asked CPAC:
When exactly
is his 18th birthday? My birthday falls in January, which meant that I was able
to leave the house and high school soon after the big 1-8. For three years, I
plotted to earn enough credits to graduate from high school early. I graduated
after the first semester in my senior year—which happened to be 10 days
after my birthday—and I was able to sign myself out of school, legally
being an adult. My parents screamed and gave the school a headache, but I was
legally in the right, and there was nothing they could do about it. (Even
though I did have to threaten to sic the ACLU on the school.) That semester
after graduation, I worked 12-hour days as a diner waitress to earn some cash;
enough to truly tell them to suck it.

Why was finishing school early a good thing?
Because I was able to work that whole semester and save money for college. This
is why CPAC needs to plan ahead. CPAC, if you're reading this, get a job right now. Work your
ass off and lie your ass off about how much money you are making, and hide it
better than you hide your porn. Save! You can only really tell your parents to
suck it when you're 18 if you don't need them to write checks for you. Apply
for a bunch of colleges (let your parents write the checks for the
applications) and ask the ones where you're accepted what sort of financial aid
they offer if your parents won't support you because you are gay. Some colleges
won't understand, and those places aren't for you anyway. But some will. Then
tell your parents to suck it, and know you've earned the right to say it loud
and proud. They may decide to come around, and if they do, tell them to bring
their checkbook, because they'll owe you.

Suck It, Dad

Maybe you should
confine your advice to adults, if the only advice you have for kids coming out
is to grin and bear it until you're out of high school, hide, and lie to your
parents and others. Maybe you should have invited some experts to weigh in,
like people who are experienced helping teens.

Your advice is
dangerous. Don't you know that hiding and lying can lead to not only thoughts
of suicide, but to suicide itself?

Would you recommend
that your son or daughter or niece or nephew lead a marginalized lifestyle,
living in fear and shame until he or she is able to graduate and get out of town?
Would you want your son or daughter to be subject to name-calling, threats, and
destruction of property?

Realistically, there is
no easy answer, but you dropped the ball and you suck, you aren't helping at
all. In fact, you're hurting. I've read your column for a long time, but now
it's time to stop.

A Former Reader

Just wanted
to shoot you a line and let you know you were spot-on with the advice you gave
the 16-year-old gay boy: Tell your parents what they want to hear, even if you
have to lie. I know, because it's exactly what I had to do. I was raised on a
farm in a conservative Southern Baptist family in rural Missouri. I knew from
the time I was 13 or 14 that I was gay, but I wasn't going to let them know. I
could only imagine the horrors that existed for that, and this was
pre-Internet, so I didn't even know parent-sanctioned torture organizations
like Exodus existed.

The only
advice I'd add for this kid is, when it's time for college, go with a state or
secular private school. He needs to be firm in not letting his parents push him
into one of those god-awful Christian schools that provide degrees like
"biblical history." If money is a concern, go to a state school. That's what I
did and now I'm 31, pulling in six figures, I own my home, and have a partner
of several years.

Life Does Get Better

I've been reading your column for a few months
now, and it's always educational and entertaining. Your last column about gay
kids really, at the risk of sounding corny, inspired me. I'm 17, gay, and out.
While I go to a very liberal high school in a generally liberal city, high
school still sucks, especially when you're gay. "Right now they're making you
feel like an outcast, TALI, and the malice stings," you wrote. "But what
exactly are they casting you out of? Your high school? Their asshole cliques?
That shit town? You haven't been cast out, TALI; you've been liberated. Freed.
Sprung." Right fuckin' on, Dan. Thanks. I needed to hear that.

Liberated, Freed, Sprung In D.C.

A friend of mine in high school was going
through pretty much the exact same thing as CPAC, and his parents decided to
send him to a therapist to "fix" him. What his parents didn't realize, of
course, is that homosexuality isn't in the DSM IV anymore, and his therapist
spent an hour every week helping him come to terms with his sexuality and deal
with his parents' hatred. At the end, he was very well-adjusted and happy, and
his parents were pissed that the therapy didn't "work." I recommend that CPAC
ask his parents for therapy and get comfy being a homo on their fundamentalist
dime.

Been There, Counseled That

I just read this week's
column and I'm applauding your advice to CPAC—the gay teenage boy with
abusive evangelical parents—except for one aspect. You suggested that he
get himself a "fag hag," which could backfire on him in two major ways.

First of all, this
means getting a second innocent kid tangled up with his demented parents, who
will not only be pestering him about their relationship, but will likely also
demand to know every little detail of her life. The other issue is that if he
does decide to go down the fake-girlfriend path, he's going to have to find a
best female friend who can be trusted not only to keep his secret, but also to
understand that no, his homosexuality is not just a phase, and that there is no
chance of a real romantic relationship between them. If he isn't careful and
totally honest with this girl in the beginning, there's a big risk of her
developing serious feelings for him and getting her heart broken.

Fags And Hags Need Love

I don't
mean to interfere in your job too much, but could you issue a bit of
clarification in your advice to CPAC, and by extension, to other young men who
are forced into the closet? You said, "get yourself a fag hag." Could you
please add, "…who knows she's a fag hag"? When I was in high school, two
friends of mine, male and female, were going out. She was constantly miserable.
She wanted what people want out of their significant others: physical signs of
affection. He told her she was a slut for asking for it. Then he started
telling her that he'd want her more if only she weren't so ugly, or loud, or
aggressive, or whatever excuse he could come up with that week. I, far from
straight myself, suggested to her that he might be gay. He swore up and down
that it wasn't so, and that I was just jealous.

She thought
the world of him, and would never have outed him or betrayed him to his
parents. Instead, she turned herself into a silent, meek little doll in the
vain hope that he'd like her more if she were more "feminine." Feminine was the
last thing he wanted. He came out as soon as he went to college, and never
spoke to her again.

Fucking
some poor, insecure straight girl over isn't fair, even if you're gay and your
parents are assholes.

Latter-Day Dyke

Regarding CPAC's parents finding his gay-porn
web-browsing history: I wanted to let you know that anyone can view online porn
with impunity, using Firefox and an add-on called Distrust. You simply start a
Distrust session, view all the porn your heart (or any other organ) desires,
then when you exit the browser or turn Distrust back off, your history, cache,
etc. return to the state they were in before the session. It's like you were
never there, and it is MUCH better than leaving behind a telltale, completely
blank history. Only a savvy user would realize the add-on was installed, and
even then, they wouldn't know it had been used, or what tracks it had erased.

Loves Internet Porn, Privacy

I thought CPAC might like to know about an
awesome little program called HeatSeek. It's made for surfing and storing porn
on your computer, all hidden away and safely encrypted. It covers your surfing
tracks and has a ton of neat features like mystery program icon, multiple "kill
switches," password protection, and even an "I'm busted" password that opens up
a completely different program, plus a bunch of other neat features. (And
that's just the free version.)

I'm not a spokesperson for the company or
anything like that, I'm just a satisfied user. (I've got a long-term girlfriend
who's really awesome but not big on what she considers "too much" porn surfing,
i.e., more than once a month.)

HeatSeek Up Suckers, Hide Ur Porno

I noticed in his letter that CPAC said he
forgot to delete his browser history. I, too, have forgotten to delete porn in
the past and paid the price. But there's a great, small program out there
called Browzar (browzar.com). It's a very small copy of Internet Explorer that
leaves no history on your computer of what you surfed. No caches, no "sites
last visited," no nothing. It's small enough that you could delete it every
time you're done jerking off and reload it before you get your next chubby, but
I'm guessing CPAC's parents wouldn't notice an extra program on the desktop,
anyway. It's a great way to look at porn or anything else on the Internet, for
that matter, without any repercussions. I figured this is something all your
readers, but especially CPAC, would appreciate.

Geek Is So Sexy

To the 16-year-old boy whose
ultra-religious parents are savagely repressing any hint of his homosexuality:
You don't have to wait two years. This is abuse, and grounds for emancipation.
You can become emancipated at the age of 16. The downside is that you'll have
to get a job, and it will be tougher for you to finish high school. But it can
be done. Perhaps there's a gay youth support group that can help you. Good
luck!

Paying Rent Since 17

A suggestion for CPAC:
When you're 18, come out LOUDLY while IN YOUR PARENTS' CHURCH! Have a bodyguard
and be by the door. Not only will this be great payback for the hell they put
you through, CPAC, but you may actually save some younger kids sitting in the
pews who are in the same situation you are.

Thirty years ago, a
choirmaster at my church loudly told off a priest during Mass. It was a turning
point in my life (and the lives of several friends). The choirmaster was in his
40s, a big guy, wore glasses. And one Sunday during Mass, up in the organ loft,
he began repeating part of the sermon that had just been delivered. It was on
the "sins of deviants." At first, we thought he was repeating part of the
sermon because he agreed with it—like he was going to call for "Amens!"
or something from the congregation, which would be a strange thing to do in a
white, Catholic church. But then he just went off! He started shouting about
all he did for this blankety-blank church, and how he and his partner had to
cower in the shadows, and he kept going from there! Every time the priest tried
to rebuke him, he'd point out some crazy-ass shit the church had done: the
Inquisition, drowning witches, the ban on birth control. Parents were covering
their children's ears, lots of people were yelling, some people were cheering.

He was fired on the
spot and heckled out as he slowly walked out of the church. BUT! The local
Catholic school run by nuns, the school I attended, refused to fire him and
made him a full music teacher, and he was there under their protection until he
passed away.

That one angry
choirmaster opened a lot of hearts and minds that day. You can, too.

A Grateful Member Of The Choir

I want TALI and CPAC to
know that my heart goes out to them. I wasn't treated nearly as horribly as
they were, but I did get a lot of teasing for the rest of high school. I wish
I'd had the courage to come out in high school, but I was raised Mormon. I had
very little fun in high school, and I was glad to get away. In the 10 years
that followed, I came out, started dating guys openly, and made a life for
myself—a life I'm quite proud of. When the letter for my 10-year class
reunion came around, I just tossed it in the trash. There was no way I was
going to let those people treat me that way again. A week before the reunion,
however, I felt an uncontrollable urge to go. I couldn't explain it. I just
decided that I was going to show up, snickers and jeers be damned. But I was
wrong. The outpouring of love and friendship was almost too much to take. Every
time I turned around, I ran into someone else who had heard I'd come out and
wanted to express how happy they were for me. The whole weekend was incredibly
cathartic. The memories hadn't changed, but the people had.

Will it be the same for
you? I certainly hope so.

Happy Mormon Cocksucker

I'm a big fan of your
column and have been reading it for years. I usually agree with your advice,
but I have to take issue with your statement that TALI would have to go to a
big university or secular private institution in order to find a welcoming
community. As someone who went to a private, Lutheran liberal-arts college, I
would have to say that this is definitely not the case. The school I went to,
though not free from homophobes, was welcoming of gay and lesbian students. The
campus congregation was a member of Reconciling In Christ (lcna.org/ric.shtm),
an organization for congregations and synods that openly welcome gay and
lesbian members into full communion (and do NOT try to "convert" them to
heterosexuality or judge them for being who they are).

Christianity
(Lutheranism, for me) is supposed to be welcoming and loving, not judgmental.
Granted, the ELCA (my particular flavor of Lutheran) has a long way to go in
its treatment of gay and lesbian members, especially when it comes to
ordination and marriage, but we are having these discussions, and many
congregations are becoming more open, even though the umbrella organization has
yet to follow.

Liberal Lutheran

Twelve
years ago, I was TALI; lost in a small town, alone, the only out lesbian for
miles, and worse, there was no such thing as the Internet. At least, not where
I lived. I came out, like TALI, hoping it would inspire other people to do the
same. Also like TALI, my efforts backfired on me instead. I was constantly
harassed, had things thrown at me, nearly got raped by a do-gooder classmate at
a party who blearily insisted he could turn me straight… the list goes on.

I left that
small town and eventually wound up in New York City. I now run my own business,
work comfortably from home, and spend my nights curled around the girl of my
dreams. The asshats responsible for making my high-school experience a living
hell are back in that shitty hometown, working shit jobs, and raising stupid,
ugly children with their stupid, ugly wives. The highlight of their week is
Friday-night pizza and beer in front of the television.

So I wanted
to write to confirm what you've already said to TALI: "The shits conspiring to
make you miserable, TALI, are unlikely to have lives anywhere near as interesting
as the one on which you're about to embark." TALI, please know that there are
about a million or more women out here who are so proud of you for coming out,
and we're all rooting for your inevitable success.

Can't Think Of Anything Clever