Matthew Modine doesn't see why he couldn't make another surprise Stranger Things return

[Note: This article contains spoilers for the fourth season of Stranger Things.]

The great thing about working in genre TV is that “dead” so rarely actually means “dead.” Take, as an example, the character of human villain Dr. Martin Brenner from Stranger Things, who, as audiences will likely remember, got off-screened chomped by the Demogorgon at the end of the show’s first season, representing a pivotal moment in the development of Millie Bobby Brown’s character Eleven—and a serious reduction in future screen time for Brenner’s actor, Matthew Modine. “Certainly,” we all said to ourselves at the time, “We won’t be seeing that particular asshole again.”

And yet, see said asshole we did again indeed: After appearing very briefly (via flashbacks and mind powers) in the show’s subsequent runs, Modine was front and center at the start of the show’s fourth season, for an extended trip back to the early days of Hawkins Lab—and then Brenner appeared in the baby-napping flesh later on in the season, still portraying himself as Eleven’s proud “Papa.” At least until he died again, somewhat more definitively, in the episode of that name.

But, again: What’s “dead” mean in sci-fi? That’s Modine’s stance, anyway, in an interview he gave this week to Vulture. “No, I wouldn’t,” Modine answers, when asked if he’d say that Brenner is dead for sure. Admittedly, his next line was then “Because I wouldn’t want him to be dead,” which is not exactly definitive proof. But he did lay out a few key questions about Brenner’s nature that might allow him to survive that hail of bullets:

Three things are curious to me: How did he survive the Demogorgon? How did he survive One? And when Eleven tries to use her power against Dr. Brenner after blowing three guards in the air, he unflinchingly thwarts her and says, “You didn’t think it was going to be that easy, did you?” She couldn’t get it to work on him. Is there something more to Brenner than meets the eye?

The more interesting argument, though, comes from a story point of view, and Modine’s contention that, while Brenner is guilty of an “unforgivable crime” against Eleven and the other children in his care, Brown’s character might only reach her fully growth and power by learning to forgive him—which she pointedly refuses to do as he “dies” in front of her in “Papa.” Modine then said a bunch of comments about forgiveness, redemption, Full Metal Jacket, and Donald Trump, and, like, we have to say: One of the more refreshing things about those last two Stranger Things episodes was seeing Eleven not extend grace to the monster who abused her. There might be power in coming to peace with him (and the sweetness of the interactions Modine describes with Brown, who he’s now known since she was eleven herself, make it easy to understand why he’d want to keep working with her). But it seems just as likely that Eleven’s true strength will come from leaving “Papa” behind her, lying dead where he belongs in the dirt.